Comments on: The worst eighth-grade math teacher in New York City

By: Kaleberg

Kaleberg — Sun, 03 Mar 2013 04:05:59 +0000

That’s the kind of ranking system that has been killing Microsoft. At MS, there can only be one A+ member of any project team entitled to the perks and larger raises. If you are good, you are either that A+ member or you join another group. That means no group has more than one great team member. It’s fair in its HR way, but it sure makes it hard to assemble and keep a good team.

By: Linda Retired Teacher

Linda Retired Teacher — Thu, 28 Feb 2013 05:31:13 +0000

Here we go again. Every time we try to hold teachers accountable for their contribution to student learning as measured by curriculum-aligned state assessments, someone like Aaron Pallas or Valerie Strauss has to tell the sob story of someone for whom the value added measure appears to have given an incomplete picture. Meanwhile, tens of thousands of teachers and their principals are getting valuable feedback on their performance that they would not otherwise have.

The excuse for this particular teacher is ostensibly ceiling effects but it sounds like she failed to motivate her students to perform up to their supposed brilliance on the 8th grade test. After all, there are surely other teachers in New York City who have gifted students, high 7th grade scores, and whose students did not have a strong motive to excel on what we are led to believe is an easy test for them. Yet those teachers managed to get their students to place above the 87th percentile.

The principal and parents are free to use other evidence to support the claim that this teacher isn’t terrible, but the student test data should be part of the picture. If I were a parent in that school I’d be glad to have this information and would be motivated to ask more questions about the teacher’s performance and ability to motivate her students.

By: Paula Washington

Paula Washington — Mon, 25 Feb 2013 16:06:35 +0000

It is a shame and a disgrace that the public humiliation of being judged by a flawed measure contributed to driving a talented teacher out of the classroom. The city, in stead of seeking to get rid of “bad teachers,” should seek to keep good ones.

By: Denise B

Denise B — Mon, 25 Feb 2013 04:33:44 +0000

According to the article, BY DEFINITION only half of teachers can be found to have added value. This is insane. It’s not the only thing that’s insane here, but it’s quite insane.

By: Laird Popkin

Laird Popkin — Mon, 25 Feb 2013 00:35:45 +0000

Her students did very well on the test in 8th grade. The problem was that they did fantastically in 7th grade, which is the year that the test counts, and only extremely well in 8th grade, when the test doesn’t count (which the students know, so they didn’t push quite as hard). But her students did fantastically well on the Regent’s test, because that test mattered, demonstrating that her students were mastering mathematics, and that the methodology of comparing the results of a zero-stakes test and a high-stakes test as if they were comparable is flawed.

By: Students Last

Students Last — Sat, 23 Feb 2013 19:43:54 +0000

She was labeled a bad teacher because of her students’ test scores. She should do what this NJ teacher did – sue her students. http://studentslast.blogspot.com/2013/02/giving-new-meaning-to-class-action.html (satire)

By: Maybe Growth Expert

Maybe Growth Expert — Fri, 22 Feb 2013 19:12:51 +0000

This is so hopelessly muddled.

Simply throwing out some possible ills with the value-added effort for NYC is simply malpracticing armchair methodology of the least helpful sort. Sadly, such comments only subtract from the nice job Prof. Pallas has done in highlighting a serious problem with current attempts to evaluate teachers, with an eye towards very real casualties.

It is clear that Growth Expert, who is expounding as if he is 9 feet tall, needs a tutorial on what “Linear Model” means, or as a matter of fact what statistical modeling do.

By: Sami Cirpili

Sami Cirpili — Fri, 22 Feb 2013 11:30:43 +0000

How about having parents talk to their children about what they learned, if they like math, if they are being challenged? Sorry, but kids are not widgets. You can’t easily measure what kind or how much growth is taking place using simplistic standardized tests because they are not a stalk of corn. Perhaps, in the future, as we learn more about how the physiological development of one brain is tied to the cognitive development of one brain, we may then figure out how the cognitive development of 30 brains in a classroom work together. Not one single teacher I know objects to accountability. Everyone I know objects to being measured unfairly.

By: Jan Becket

Jan Becket — Fri, 22 Feb 2013 06:52:21 +0000

As a 30+ year English/Art teacher I can sympathize with your desire for accountability. However, you are looking at accountability models constructed by corporate entities far more interested in their bottom line than in the welfare of your child. It is most unfortunate for the children that I teach that they are now viewed as a source of revenue for Wall Street hedge fund managers. The very best thing a parent can do for a child in this chaotic landscape is to look closely at the degrees held by teachers and at the institutions that awarded them. If you do not trust the teacher, trust the degree.

By: Interested Parent

Interested Parent — Thu, 21 Feb 2013 19:12:08 +0000

I can a appreciate some of the logic in this article, but others don’t add up.
-How did her 7th grade students remember material from previous years ahd the 8th grade did not?
-If 8th grade students have checked out for the ELA, why do they still do well on the Regents exam?
-Do you have any sample questions from the ELA? I would be interested in seeing some state math testing questions that rewards mathematically incorrect answers and penalizes correct ones?

I tend to agree that the value added calculation is not perfect, but parents are looking for some form of accountability. Trust me is not cutting it any more. Maybe this calculation could count as only a portion, say 30%, of teacher evaluation such as they are doing in Los Angeles.